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Rhyd Wildermuth's avatar

I come back 24 hours later to a computer and find a lot of discussion here, not all of it civil nor necessarily even related to the thrust of the essay itself. I'll try to reply as much as possible in this comment to the others rather than trying to chase down specific comment threads.

First of all, I should note that if I didn't have people who disagree with me reading my work, I'd be a failed writer. Comments that say "you shouldn't be here if you disagree" are quite contrary to what I'm about. Please don't do this anymore.

Specifically regarding Paul's critiques, which there are a few, I'll respond first about my use of "indigenous." I'm actually quite surprised to need to clarify, as I'm more accustomed to extreme social justice sorts in the US taking umbrage at its use: for them, nothing can be "indigenous" to Europe, and any use of the term related to people in Europe is immediately seen as racist and "white supremacist."

Here I use the term to reference the animist traditions which had developed in relationship to place over thousands of years. Where I live, the animist practices of the Celtic Treveri would be one such "indigenous" practice. Because monotheism has taught people to think in universalizing categories, it's helpful to remember that these were actually multiplicities. There was no "indigenous European animism" but rather countless "indigenous European animisms." And it was these animisms, or what the Christians called "pagan" or "heathen" beliefs, that the Church actively stamped out by direct force and slower conversion.

Regarding the Anglo and Saxon situation in England, it appears to have parallels to the movement of the Franks into Treveri lands, though it was probably more violent there than here. Here, the two peoples merged quite seamlessly, as was very common pre-Christianity. Gods also: Arduinna and Freyj seem to have merged, rather than one displacing the other. Before the Christian conquest of North America, the situation was quite similar for indigenous (use "native" if you need to) peoples there. Thought sometimes one tribe might slaughter another, most often the process was more like the Frankish/Treveri merging.

Once the Franks were Christianized here, however, the situation is quite different. Frankish kings converted by missionaries offering promises of greater power -- just as Roman emperors had -- then did the work of the missionaries for them with swords. It was a highly effective ploy on the part of the missionaries, who everywhere faced resistance and retaliation. Easier to spread the gospel if you've got armies to back you up.

Regarding Patrick and the apparent "gap" of missionary work: there was plenty of conversion occurring before Patrick throughout Europe, but this looked much more like what it always did, as when Theodosius ordered all the pagan shrines destroyed at Mt. Athos to so it could be filled with monasteries instead. That is: it was primarily by force. Paul, you are correct that Patrick initiated a different process, but it can hardly be called "bottom up" because he started first with the conversions of the tuatha. And though he was a slave for six years, in one of the only pieces of writing we can really be certain was probably his, he himself notes he was born to a large land-holding family before being captured by Irish raiders.

Now to the question of moral/immoral, I think it's pretty clear from my entire body of writing that I don't divide people or actions that way, nor do I believe there is even such a think as a "moral" or "immoral" act. In fact, that's a crucial point to keep in mind about monotheism's treatment of those who cremated the remains of their ancestors. For animists, it wasn't a question of it being the "moral" thing to do, but rather "the thing we do." For monotheists, burial wasn't just the "the thing we do" but also "the only thing everyone else should do, too." This is a peculiar feature inherent to monotheism itself, as I've pointed out repeatedly before. Once all other gods are deemed as false or demons, then they must be fought and their followers converted (by coaxing or by force) at the "true" god's behest. Again, this is a peculiar (and singular) feature of all monotheisms, not just Christianity.

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Olly Rathbone's avatar

Thank you for a fascinating article. I had no idea laws on cremation were, and in some places still are, so strict. In the UK the undertaker just gives you a cardboard tube full of the deceased’s ashes. My parents ashes lie under their favourite apple tree in the garden of what is presently my house. I often stop to talk to or think of them.

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