“Anyone who gets pregnant” serves not too inelegantly. Or, as a variation, “when someone becomes pregnant, what to do about it should ultimately be their free, uncompelled choice.”
From a political standpoint: conservatives in the US have been planning for this for decades and they executed their plan. I think a lot of people chose to believe they wouldn’t actually follow through. Anyone who is surprised at this just hasn’t paid attention.
Democrats gave them a big assist. Clinton squandered his presidency. Obama declined to make passing federal legislation a priority. Ginsburg refused to retire when she could be replaced by someone similar politically. Their electoral strategy is broadly a failure, putting all of their eggs in the basket of the presidency and Supreme Court while losing at the state and local levels.
There was also a middle path on abortion they’ve long ignored or only offered token support: address the material conditions in the United States so that there are less abortions. Actual healthcare reform, universal programs to support people and children, etc. Abortions should be safe, legal, and private choices but no one should have to choose that route because of economic insecurity.
I think a lot of wokeness is occurring among the class of people who don’t experience actual economic insecurity or are even engaged with the material world. It’s jockeying for upper middle class administrative positions, for lucrative consulting contracts, and the like. I’m not sure this ruling will really impact them precisely for that reason: abortions will still be available in the richer, blue states they live in. It still won’t impact them materially. Many will make out really well, starting non profits off of this, fund raising for PACs, etc.
Women in the US no longer have anywhere to turn politically. The right wants to obliterate their right to control their bodies, the left wants to obliterate their right to single-sex spaces, shelters, and events (eg sports).
The Democrats' odious Equality Act would allow any man to declare hinself to be a woman, for any length of time, long or short, and then enter any women-only space or event.
For example, compete for prize money in professional tennis. Sue the WNBA for illegal gender discrimination for not putting him on a professional womens' basketball team.
A rape by such a man has already occured in a prison in New York, where (like California) this is already state law.
The patriarchy has won, big time. It now completely controls both the left and the right in the US.
I feel a little conflicted about this, to be honest. On the one hand, I don't find "pregnant people" at all awkward or ridiculous, & I recognize that, as a cis man, I'm probably not the best person to be arbitrating the language of sex & gender. But, on the other hand, my understanding of the history of abortion rights is that the contemporary, so-called "pro-life" movement is little more than an aggressive move against women's liberation movements. That is, it's not really about whether or not fetuses are human persons or the morality of terminating pregnancies, but about controlling women by restricting their ability to control their bodies & their fertility. So, while I have no problem at all with the idea that there are pregnant people who are not women, I do think that it is, in essence, a feminist issue, & it would seem rather unfortunate if the concern with linguistic inclusivity came to obscure that.
The hypocrisy of the establishment Left on this issue is staggering. For over a year they have been coercing people to receive untested injections, yet they now suddenly remember the principle of 'My Body, My Choice'.
I think the blame can be placed all over and some have already commented on some of those points. The one I see, and I agree with was predicted by Camile Paglia in the 90’s was during her college speaking tours she would do regarding abortion and other culture topics. Paglia, who believes in abortion on demand and certainly qualifies as pro-choice, argued that if you are pro-choice and you remove or do not grapple with and acknowledge the moral implications of abortion that the pro-life argument ultimately wins out. In other words, to ignore it or try and explain it away as just superstitious foolishness would ultimately lead to where we are now. There was a reason Safe, legal and rare took the wind out of many of the pro-life hardline views and political gains for a few years. That political phrase acknowledged the moral framework at some level and most people I know, and polls back this up, do not believe in abortion with zero limitations.
Some key examples I have seen this manifest is with the ‘shout your abortion’ campaign and calling pro-life people or pro-choice people being accused of being ‘anti-women’ because they didn’t fully agree with private matters proudly being put on social media. It was not just the fellow Christians in my life that were horrified, it was many of the secular liberals (their label, not mine) were horrified in similar ways. One person is my wife. Her cousin works in Planned Parenthood in Washington, D.C. and this cousin and others in her family have been on the front lines of women’s rights legislation and other matters. The shout your abortion thing came up and my wife simply stated that probably isn’t the best way to argue for the women’s right to an abortion. What happened next was what we are all witnessing now in the West. My wife was deemed essentially a heretic and called “anti-women”. It was a rather crazy experience, and it did not and still does not matter my wife is very pro-choice. It was not a conversation and any mention of the moral implications made it worse with the one cousin stating: “Its not a person, it not anything, get rid of that shit.”
Back to Paglia’s’ point. If that is how the argument is framed, its no wonder the restrictions at hand win out. The irony missed is they seem the most rational even if draconian. Which leads to your question Rhyd, woke ideology is wholly unprepared to handle the abortion debate because it doesn't see the moral argument framework, only the structures of oppression framework. It's Paglia's point from another view.
Moving beyond identity- allowing bodies ... pregnancy is not a condition, but a physiological experience, should be trusted to those who experience it- regardless of how they see themselves. And i suppose, with some deeper consideration, that's what it comes to. It's upsetting to me that it's a left/ right issue. Those who are able to bear children need the proper tools to be able to work with or against that power, if nothing more than being knowledgeable about their own bodies, and being tuned into when in their cycle they have the potential to conceive, and having a respectful partner who honors the desires of that time... A troubling element of parts of trans culture for me- the degree of basis in hate and/ or discomfort and disconnect for our amazing bodies- that many have become so estranged from that they want nothing to do with the body they've been given. Regardless it is an issue that should be no business or campaign of government. And what "medical rights" for "those with uteruses " (sounds so anatomical, but that's the point, right?) might look like in this generation's tackling of the matter may take on some odd language- I'd be one to argue that "we've" never succeeded in these "rights" beyond levels of knowledge that have been forced primarily underground, which is very unfortunate indeed. The right, the power, is in knowledge that can not be taken. it is about the body, and always has been. The identity of the body in this case is trivial.
Poignant points you make! Thanks for these. I'm wondering why anyone gets pulled into watching another car crash when we all know we could use herbs, plants or even pharmaceuticals to terminate a pregnancy. We don't need their laws and as you mention, it can be fought for on local ground, if people care to do so. Seems like they just want to keep us in a state of outrage. Personally, I've moved on from relying on the government to align itself with my values, I'm just going to get back to living them. Wish others would come out and play already. It's gonna take a village to remake the culture.
“Anyone who gets pregnant” serves not too inelegantly. Or, as a variation, “when someone becomes pregnant, what to do about it should ultimately be their free, uncompelled choice.”
From a political standpoint: conservatives in the US have been planning for this for decades and they executed their plan. I think a lot of people chose to believe they wouldn’t actually follow through. Anyone who is surprised at this just hasn’t paid attention.
Democrats gave them a big assist. Clinton squandered his presidency. Obama declined to make passing federal legislation a priority. Ginsburg refused to retire when she could be replaced by someone similar politically. Their electoral strategy is broadly a failure, putting all of their eggs in the basket of the presidency and Supreme Court while losing at the state and local levels.
There was also a middle path on abortion they’ve long ignored or only offered token support: address the material conditions in the United States so that there are less abortions. Actual healthcare reform, universal programs to support people and children, etc. Abortions should be safe, legal, and private choices but no one should have to choose that route because of economic insecurity.
I think a lot of wokeness is occurring among the class of people who don’t experience actual economic insecurity or are even engaged with the material world. It’s jockeying for upper middle class administrative positions, for lucrative consulting contracts, and the like. I’m not sure this ruling will really impact them precisely for that reason: abortions will still be available in the richer, blue states they live in. It still won’t impact them materially. Many will make out really well, starting non profits off of this, fund raising for PACs, etc.
Pregnant people seems fine to me.
Women in the US no longer have anywhere to turn politically. The right wants to obliterate their right to control their bodies, the left wants to obliterate their right to single-sex spaces, shelters, and events (eg sports).
The Democrats' odious Equality Act would allow any man to declare hinself to be a woman, for any length of time, long or short, and then enter any women-only space or event.
For example, compete for prize money in professional tennis. Sue the WNBA for illegal gender discrimination for not putting him on a professional womens' basketball team.
A rape by such a man has already occured in a prison in New York, where (like California) this is already state law.
The patriarchy has won, big time. It now completely controls both the left and the right in the US.
I feel a little conflicted about this, to be honest. On the one hand, I don't find "pregnant people" at all awkward or ridiculous, & I recognize that, as a cis man, I'm probably not the best person to be arbitrating the language of sex & gender. But, on the other hand, my understanding of the history of abortion rights is that the contemporary, so-called "pro-life" movement is little more than an aggressive move against women's liberation movements. That is, it's not really about whether or not fetuses are human persons or the morality of terminating pregnancies, but about controlling women by restricting their ability to control their bodies & their fertility. So, while I have no problem at all with the idea that there are pregnant people who are not women, I do think that it is, in essence, a feminist issue, & it would seem rather unfortunate if the concern with linguistic inclusivity came to obscure that.
The hypocrisy of the establishment Left on this issue is staggering. For over a year they have been coercing people to receive untested injections, yet they now suddenly remember the principle of 'My Body, My Choice'.
I think the blame can be placed all over and some have already commented on some of those points. The one I see, and I agree with was predicted by Camile Paglia in the 90’s was during her college speaking tours she would do regarding abortion and other culture topics. Paglia, who believes in abortion on demand and certainly qualifies as pro-choice, argued that if you are pro-choice and you remove or do not grapple with and acknowledge the moral implications of abortion that the pro-life argument ultimately wins out. In other words, to ignore it or try and explain it away as just superstitious foolishness would ultimately lead to where we are now. There was a reason Safe, legal and rare took the wind out of many of the pro-life hardline views and political gains for a few years. That political phrase acknowledged the moral framework at some level and most people I know, and polls back this up, do not believe in abortion with zero limitations.
Some key examples I have seen this manifest is with the ‘shout your abortion’ campaign and calling pro-life people or pro-choice people being accused of being ‘anti-women’ because they didn’t fully agree with private matters proudly being put on social media. It was not just the fellow Christians in my life that were horrified, it was many of the secular liberals (their label, not mine) were horrified in similar ways. One person is my wife. Her cousin works in Planned Parenthood in Washington, D.C. and this cousin and others in her family have been on the front lines of women’s rights legislation and other matters. The shout your abortion thing came up and my wife simply stated that probably isn’t the best way to argue for the women’s right to an abortion. What happened next was what we are all witnessing now in the West. My wife was deemed essentially a heretic and called “anti-women”. It was a rather crazy experience, and it did not and still does not matter my wife is very pro-choice. It was not a conversation and any mention of the moral implications made it worse with the one cousin stating: “Its not a person, it not anything, get rid of that shit.”
Back to Paglia’s’ point. If that is how the argument is framed, its no wonder the restrictions at hand win out. The irony missed is they seem the most rational even if draconian. Which leads to your question Rhyd, woke ideology is wholly unprepared to handle the abortion debate because it doesn't see the moral argument framework, only the structures of oppression framework. It's Paglia's point from another view.
Moving beyond identity- allowing bodies ... pregnancy is not a condition, but a physiological experience, should be trusted to those who experience it- regardless of how they see themselves. And i suppose, with some deeper consideration, that's what it comes to. It's upsetting to me that it's a left/ right issue. Those who are able to bear children need the proper tools to be able to work with or against that power, if nothing more than being knowledgeable about their own bodies, and being tuned into when in their cycle they have the potential to conceive, and having a respectful partner who honors the desires of that time... A troubling element of parts of trans culture for me- the degree of basis in hate and/ or discomfort and disconnect for our amazing bodies- that many have become so estranged from that they want nothing to do with the body they've been given. Regardless it is an issue that should be no business or campaign of government. And what "medical rights" for "those with uteruses " (sounds so anatomical, but that's the point, right?) might look like in this generation's tackling of the matter may take on some odd language- I'd be one to argue that "we've" never succeeded in these "rights" beyond levels of knowledge that have been forced primarily underground, which is very unfortunate indeed. The right, the power, is in knowledge that can not be taken. it is about the body, and always has been. The identity of the body in this case is trivial.
Poignant points you make! Thanks for these. I'm wondering why anyone gets pulled into watching another car crash when we all know we could use herbs, plants or even pharmaceuticals to terminate a pregnancy. We don't need their laws and as you mention, it can be fought for on local ground, if people care to do so. Seems like they just want to keep us in a state of outrage. Personally, I've moved on from relying on the government to align itself with my values, I'm just going to get back to living them. Wish others would come out and play already. It's gonna take a village to remake the culture.