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Kieran Telo's avatar

Thank you for drawing attention to the Amnesty report. They are taking a lot of flak for it, which suggests they're right over the correct target.

A point you didn't make but could have is the Ukrainian forces are not just hiding in civilian areas but bombarding them too, in particular the city of Donetsk. Anti-personnel ordnance, called Petals I think, are being used to maim civilians.

Likewise the HIMARS systems given as "military aid" (an obscene contradiction in terms) give Ukraine the capacity to shell enemies and civilians alike, not forgetting their own combatants taken as Prisoners Of War, from further away. Inevitably this entices DPR, LPR, and RF forces northward and westward in order to push the NATO/Ukrainian artilleries further away from the Donetsk Basin.

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NFerro's avatar

Great writing all around, by you, The Guardian, and Amnesty International.

Many thoughts here, some conflicting, mainly because of the nuance of the situation that like most things in life keep us away from a hard, fast A or B solution.

War is one of those human things that boils existence of the people involved in it to very simple things. Stay alive and kill the enemy. All things start with that premise. Ethics and morals should (wish I could use italics for emphasis) be taken into account but are often lost in war throughout history because the fear of death puts everything else aside. There are many things that can affect that for the better, such as training, command structure, accountability. Those things don't exist in most militaries as much as they should. We could say that those soldiers should not be in the house in the neighborhood because it risks the civilians. The soldiers likely say if we are in the woods we don't have shelter or food or warmth. Our ethics and morals say too damn bad it is your duty to not put those civilians at risk, those soldiers may say you have never experienced what we have experienced. My personal ethics and morals say that as a solider I should never put civilians at risk however I have experienced enough unique situations in emergency services where I know one should not judge until directly placed into that position in the first place. Until you have had your life directly threatened by violence you do not know how that affects your way of thinking. A lot of things you believe in disappear completely in that moment.

A note on pacifism. I love the idea of it. It is the ideal we should strive for. The danger with pacifism is that there are those that will take advantage of it. Even in the fantasy I love of the Star Trek Next Generation universe the Federation and Star Fleet with it's premise of science and exploration still had to throw down. Sometimes in defense of others who could not defend themselves, sometimes in defense of itself. The question boils down to what is worse, not fighting and living under whatever conditions arise or death. I think the question is not so much should we or should we not fight but what is worse, death or a miserable existence.

Now one could easily argue that if Zelensky surrendered to Putin and Russia annexed Ukraine not much would change for the average person. To analyse that one would have to look at what occurred in Crimea after the 2014 annexation. That is difficult because it has been under an information and democratic lockdown since then. That is part of the challenge of assessing whether the Russian people support the war, many are afraid to even take part in a survey for fear of being jailed for what has been made illegal, criticism of the so called special military operation.

Here is what it boils down to for me. And this is just me, I judge not those who have a different point of view, I am not saying I am right or wrong in this. If the choice for me is risk of death by fighting in the defense of family, friends, others who can not protect themselves or living in an existence in which I am constantly abused or fearful of death or torture or even just living a miserable day to day existence where all I am doing is trying to stay alive to get to the next day I believe I would choose the risk of death in the fight. Now I have never been in that situation so that may change the moment the first bomb drops. I can not choose pacifism if it led to a situation in which I did not want to live. You could argue that my choice affects others who may not want to fight, puts their lives in danger. I would counter-argue that they will be at risk anyways, no invading army ever handed out cake and toys when they conquered a land. Russia's history when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union speaks to that.

Diplomacy, compromise, negotiation, mutual understanding, all these among others should be our priorities. However until we live in a world where abusive and exploitative people don't exist a situation may arise in which fighting is the only option. When that occurs morals and ethics should come into place. Not bombing civilian buildings but also not housing uninjured soldiers in civilian buildings should occur. But see then where we get nuance here? If a city is surrounded by a military force where are the military forces supposed to go? We could then return to the basic premise of Russia never should have attacked in the first place. Doesn't mean that it absolves Ukraine military from their actions but it certainly is a factor.

I suppose I will leave with this. Yes, the person at the protest who throws the rock at the police is at fault if they do so in full understanding that the police will respond with tear gas which will affect the other peaceful protestors in the crowd. But what if the police were not there at all? Then what would the protestor throw a rock at? What if we lived in a society where that protest never had to occur at all?

At the end of the day I will not blame a warrior for being a warrior. Sure not all people should be a warrior but most are just trying to stay alive. It is the people who put them in that situation in the first place, either as the aggressor or senior leadership who did not provide them with the food, equipment, training to not put civilians at risk, that should be held accountable.

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