Fascinating stuff, Rhyd. And I hope you had a good (pagan) Christmas.
I'm wondering where the common ground is. Maybe more than that, I am wondering what you mean by 'pagan.' Obviously originally, the word basically meant 'not Christian' - but what does it mean to you in a positive sense? It seems to mean that you don't believe there is a 'God' that created - and continues to create - reality.
I suppose the question that arises for me (a genuine question, not a challenge) is: so, how did reality arise? What created it? What is behind or outside of it? If no great intelligence is responsible, then are you not presented with a version of the problem you identify here: ie, that there is no reason not to 'rebel' and create reality in our own way?
I'm also interested in this quote:
"In this older Pagan cosmology, the goal of human life isn’t to unseat or dethrone the stars or the gods from their homes, but rather to learn how to also find our own seats and our own homes. Everything in nature is in its setl: the forest is where the forest is, the river is flowing through its home, the stars and the sun are following their own tracks across the sky just as the deer follow their own tracks across the land.
Everything is following a kind of order, but it is its own kind of order,³ an order arising from being rather than purpose. Purpose implies design, an ultimate destiny, what you were ‘put on this earth for.’ Being, on the other hand, is its own fulfillment, which is also the Tao of the Tao Te Ching."
This is not so far away from the traditional Christian worldview (there are many Christian worldviews, all squabbling with each other, but the Orthodox view sees 'God' as 'everywhere present and filling all things.') C. S. Lewis used the word 'Tao' to refer to the way of nature, which is also the way of God. A natural order within which humans should reside - not through fear of transgressing, but through wanting to live within that which was created by love.
I am rambling a bit, but I don't think the gap is as big as you might think - though of course the existence or otherwise of a loving creator is non-negotiable for a Christian. The nature of that creator, though, remains a mystery.
Love this article and really love the dialogue between you and Paul! I super enjoyed Paul’s recent conversation with Charles Eisenstein. I would think that a video conversation between you and Paul would be fantastic and hope you will both consider that. Deepest gratitude for both of you! 🙏🏼🧡🙏🏼
Fascinating stuff, Rhyd. And I hope you had a good (pagan) Christmas.
I'm wondering where the common ground is. Maybe more than that, I am wondering what you mean by 'pagan.' Obviously originally, the word basically meant 'not Christian' - but what does it mean to you in a positive sense? It seems to mean that you don't believe there is a 'God' that created - and continues to create - reality.
I suppose the question that arises for me (a genuine question, not a challenge) is: so, how did reality arise? What created it? What is behind or outside of it? If no great intelligence is responsible, then are you not presented with a version of the problem you identify here: ie, that there is no reason not to 'rebel' and create reality in our own way?
I'm also interested in this quote:
"In this older Pagan cosmology, the goal of human life isn’t to unseat or dethrone the stars or the gods from their homes, but rather to learn how to also find our own seats and our own homes. Everything in nature is in its setl: the forest is where the forest is, the river is flowing through its home, the stars and the sun are following their own tracks across the sky just as the deer follow their own tracks across the land.
Everything is following a kind of order, but it is its own kind of order,³ an order arising from being rather than purpose. Purpose implies design, an ultimate destiny, what you were ‘put on this earth for.’ Being, on the other hand, is its own fulfillment, which is also the Tao of the Tao Te Ching."
This is not so far away from the traditional Christian worldview (there are many Christian worldviews, all squabbling with each other, but the Orthodox view sees 'God' as 'everywhere present and filling all things.') C. S. Lewis used the word 'Tao' to refer to the way of nature, which is also the way of God. A natural order within which humans should reside - not through fear of transgressing, but through wanting to live within that which was created by love.
I am rambling a bit, but I don't think the gap is as big as you might think - though of course the existence or otherwise of a loving creator is non-negotiable for a Christian. The nature of that creator, though, remains a mystery.
Happy new year,
Paul
Love this article and really love the dialogue between you and Paul! I super enjoyed Paul’s recent conversation with Charles Eisenstein. I would think that a video conversation between you and Paul would be fantastic and hope you will both consider that. Deepest gratitude for both of you! 🙏🏼🧡🙏🏼
Rhyd I love this piece, that you so much for your writing!