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Rhyd I just started watching the interview and your metaphor of standing in the same place then finding the map has been redrawn is spot-on. I remember when I first realised that what I personally do doesn't stop culture shift: it was when digital photography came in and I was like, well, I'll just stick with film. Then over time all the films I liked to use disappeared one by one, then finally the labs closed. Then everyone's idea of what a photo is, and what it means to take one, and ideas around ethics and consent, morphed more and more until I was like- I don't want to be a photographer any more. It means something different now.

I noticed the same thing at the start of the Pandemic. Previously people had called me a nihilist and an extremist and suchlike (for wanting to discuss politics and the end of the world an so on), then when they got rabbit-holed, they were calling me a shill for the Man (for wanting to discuss politics and the end of the world, but not in their terms), and I was like- I'm still standing in the exact same place. It's you who have moved.

Q.: How are your dreams these days? (I mean literal sleep dreams.)

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Gordon is incorrect about NZ politics though. Ardern will never admit it, but she was basically hounded out of office. And Labour have lost plenty of elections- prior to the Ardern Govt we had three terms of John Key. Key, AKA 'Teflon John', a multi-millionaire merchant banker, did the same thing as Ardern: resigned mid-term, then went back to work for the banks.

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Oh, my dreams -- utterly incomprehensible since equinox. Just before they felt like clear conversations, but now they feel like walking through a foreign city with everyone speaking a different language. Eager to hopefully learn this new language they're speaking in...

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