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Anne Barton's avatar

"But that’s not how the real works. If someone forces me to kill someone else on their behalf and then tells me it’s because they’re making me “free,” I’m pretty likely to suspect otherwise. And if you’re witnessing a fight between two people, and then you see a third person hand one of them a weapon, you’re going to assume that third party is also involved in the fight as well."

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be a concept most Americans grasp. How many people actually want to hire someone to peer into bedroom windows to see if anyone is having gay sex? How many want to hire armed men to put kids in cages? How many would contribute to a GoFundMe to buy bombs to blow up Palestinian children? How many want to hire armed men to prevent twelve year olds who got raped from having an abortion? But Americans continue to vote for an contribute to politicians and organizations that want to use their money to do exactly those things. Because they feel like if someone else does the actual bad thing, they aren't responsible, even if they paid for and advocated for the bad thing to be done. They believe the moral high ground of opposing immigration, antisemitism, or abortion is more important than the actual consequences of enforcing their views. The same is true of Ukraine- most of the pro-Zelensky crowd don't actually like Ukraine any more than most "pro-lifers" like forcing women to carry dead fetuses to term. But they believe that fighting the evil of Russia and standing up to bad things is worth the consequences (that are conveniently enacted on people they don't know).

Then there is also the aspect of socially-constructed reality, which is my modern gloss on Stirner's idea of "spooks". The socially constructed reality is that Ukraine is good guys and Russia is bad guys. Submission to the socially constructed reality is considered pro-social behavior. Heresy is denying the socially constructed reality, and is assumed to be the result anti-social traits such as believing you are smarter than the group or the leaders of the group and unwillingness to bend and submit to the socially-constructed reality. By questioning the socially-constructed reality, you are automatically excommunicated from the group, and therefore assumed to be part of another group. Which is actually considered preferable to thinking for yourself and not submitting to any of the available options for socially constructed realities. Submission to something means you do not own yourself, which means ownership of your mind could at some point be transferred to their group through conversion or conquest. If you own your own mind, you will always be a threat. See also: how much the Democrats blame people who refuse to vote or leftists who don't like them for what the Republicans do, while trying to convert and win over the Republicans who are actually doing the things they don't like.

Which goes into where I'm a bit more cynical than you. Over the years, I've noticed more and more issues being Balkanized. Just like imperial powers once intentionally drew maps that created "countries" with parts of several ethnic or religious groups in them so they could prevent unified resistance to their colonization, I see political issues being split and divided between the two American parties in a way that forces incoherence and fighting within the parties. What other than Balkanization could account for the Democratic Party supporting women's bodily autonomy and equality- but also the abolition of sex-segregated sports that allow women to compete fairly without being flattened by a 300lb-lean body-weight male? How is it that the Republicans are both the pro-natalist party and the party trying to ban IVF? How come the "America First" party is funding Israel's war in Gaza? Or how about how is the party of big business and rural America promising to deport the undocumented cheap labor force American farming and industry relies on? I don't know if it's a "conspiracy"- like you I try to avoid conspiratorial thinking, and besides I'm really doubtful that most of those involved are intelligent and discreet enough to pull off a conspiracy so well even if they wanted to. Hanlon's Razor ("never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity") argues against a deliberate Balkanization of politics, but I can't deny the pattern I see. While I don't believe some mastermind is pulling the strings to Balkanize issues, I do think the party positions have become socially-constructed realities ("faiths") that people are supposed to swallow whole and tithe to the church of. Sadly, cults which demand adherence to obviously stupid rules to signal group cohesion are more stable and long-lasting than cults which are more laissez faire. Which may explain why very extreme positions on issues are popular in both parties, even among people who individually don't agree with those positions. Supporting those extreme and illogical positions signals submission to the faith, while criticism of them signals dangerous individualism and arrogance.

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Cryptic's avatar

I'm not a paid subscriber, so I couldn't comment on the other Ukraine posts, but on this one I can. So I want to take the opportunity to respond, not for sake of argument, but because I see an underlying idea that I believe should be challenged. I want to talk about it.

I disagree with your take on Ukraine. My question is--are you a cynic? And do we have to accept a cynical worldview as 'the real'? That is what I see underlying your position; what I see it reducing down to. And I outright reject cynicism. I think it's a terrible way to view the world and live life.

Cynicism is a narrative--a judgement. It's not a necessity or objective requirement to reach that conclusion about reality, no matter how much corruption or evil there is. We do not have to decide that the nature of reality is dark.

In your writing above, the initial cynicism plays out by use of strawmen: first by claiming that having ideals always leads to its inversion (e.g. antiracism), and second that ideals are a function of progress, which pins them to shitty materialist metaphysics. Yes, you can do them that way, but you don't have to. You can have authentic values, ideals, and principles, in service to good, in an animist context. This is what I try to do as a magician.

Further, there is cynicism underlying the rest of the argument about Ukraine, to the point that it distorts and undermines 'the real'. If you're colouring reality with an ideology, I don't think you can see it clearly.

Thus, I would like to propose an alternative take on Ukraine: there absolutely are good guys, Ukraine is one of them, and JD Vance/Trump/Trump's administration are making a catastrophic series of unforced errors. Notwithstanding their narcissism and obsession with proving their 'betterness' than the Biden admin., everything they are doing is making a general European war more probable, not less.

To explain it, I have to first get rid of Russian propaganda: 1) There was no CIA-backed coup in 2014 in Ukraine; 2) NATO is not an aggressive, dangerous, imperial force gobbling up territory; and 3) Russia was provoked into the conflict by NATO or Ukraine itself making political choices. All of these are provably false, and 3) is a twisted, toxic, immoral ethic equivalent to 'look what you made me do'.

We need to situate the perspective properly--with Ukraine at centre--and reject 'spheres of influence' and a geopolitics built around 'great powers'. Ukraine, as a state, is a sovereign, constituted by the will of its people, and is entitled as a sovereign to self-determination. We need to understand that, and focus on it, because what Ukraine wants is the only perspective that matters in terms of right and wrong.

And what do the Ukrainians want? Not to be Russian. That's unequivocal. They also want to move out of the orbit of Russia and toward Europe, and decisions to that effect are the actual cause of the war.

You can see this If you go back to 2012, from the pre-maidan era, where the Yanukovych govt was trying to convince a skeptical EU to begin the accession process. We need to really internalise that--why would a coup be necessary, to replace the Yanukovych govt with a pro-Western one, when the pro-Russian Yanukovych govt was already intent on joining the EU?

Likewise, the EU was actually reluctant to accept Ukraine, because they felt Ukraine didn't have sufficient safeguards in law to protect rights--especially with Yulia Tymoshenko in jail for political persecution. That's another important point that has been forgotten--the EU actually resisted Ukraine--so again, what good would a coup have done if the other party to the process was reluctant to accept the deal?

But both sides (EU/Ukraine) did have the desire to work it out--and the Yanukovych govt did introduce sufficient changes to keep the process moving, which was due to be formally announced at the Vilnius summit in November 2012. That never happened.

Why didn't it happen? Because the Russians engaged in economic warfare against Ukraine. In August 2012, they banned the import of Ukrainian goods into Russia, and attempted to force the other members of the Eurasian Economic Union to do the same. The ban caused Ukraine millions in losses; created economic chaos, even forced Ukraine to talk to the IMF for a bailout. The move made clear to Ukraine that joining the EU would end up an act of economic destruction. Yanukovych cancelled the accession process over the economic woes--and that is what caused the protests, leading to the revolution.

The protests themselves had no central leader, no authority, and were not aligned with any specific political party--initially it was started by students. And as Yanukovych and the Berkut cracked down, the protests reciprocally grew in size and strength. The more brutal Yanukovych became, the larger the protests got. Until eventually, after Berkut snipers murdered 100 protesters (which I watched live on YouTube), Yanukovych and most of his ministers fled. The Rada sacked him for deserting his post, not impeached for crimes against the people. Poroshenko became President, and... called elections, which Zelensky won handily. So what kind of coup ends with an election and the peaceful transfer of power? It was a revolution, and it restored the 2004 Constitution. Calling it a coup is propaganda.

More importantly, the point in recounting this is to demonstrate that the people of Ukraine have proven unequivocally what they want. They want EU and they want NATO--because NATO actually works to deter Russia, which is why most of the post-Soviet states joined it. The key thing to remember about NATO is that it's voluntary, not expansionary or coercive, and purely defensive. No NATO states have designs on Russian territory or want to control Russia, or even to threaten it. What NATO represents to these small states is freedom from Russian control. Which is why the Russians hate it so much.

So if Ukraine is so clear about their intentions, why is it that people who are supposed to be anti-imperial feel like it's acceptable to ignore them? It's frustrating to watch everyone who says they care about the people of Ukraine treating them like a toddler in a custody battle.

To decide not only what is good for Ukraine, but worse, to engage with the very people who want to impose their will on Ukraine, and are willing to kill and destroy to do it.

Thus, it's because I'm not a cynic and I do have the very principles you call 'neoliberal' (even though I'm not neoliberal) that I can see that what Zelensky and Ukraine wants is actual freedom--the ability to decide for themselves what kind of future they'll have. I see in them exactly the same thing we all want for ourselves. I see the same rights that we have and believe in. Or in other words, I see a 'good guy', not corruption--if Russia stops fighting, the war ends; if Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. It's existential, and that's not hyperbole. I see a people with a distinct heritage resisting having that heritage erased from existence. And if all of that is true, and I think it's objectively, provably true, then that is what is 'the real'--things actually are what they appear to be. I think it is only after we have already succumbed to cynicism and adopted a pessimistic, jaded view of the world that we decide otherwise.

I said earlier that Vance/Trump are making a series of unforced errors--so let me explain them. They are: turning a security conference into a domestic political issue; antagonising states that are allies, weakening the relationships; withdrawing or becoming isolationist when there is a legitimate threat to European stability (repeating the same mistake they made in 1939); engaging in appeasement; and demonstrating repeatedly that they have no principles or ethics (e.g. trying to buy Greenland, removing Palestinians from Gaza, negotiating peace with Russia directly without either the EU (who is expected to be guarantor of the deal) or Ukraine, etc.) and cannot be trusted. Those errors, if they continue to occur, will end with Europe rejecting the US, and the US withdrawing from European affairs. That in turn might mean Europe potentially having to directly enter the war in Ukraine to keep Ukraine from collapsing. Because unlike what some people think, what Trump seems to think, Ukraine will fight on and the EU can't let them fail (or at least some EU states will not let them fail (aka UK/Poland/France)). Most EU states have very good reason to believe that if Russia consolidates a victory over Ukraine, it will begin targeting them to destabilise their politics, economics, and social systems.

Finally, I know this is a wall of text--it's just that all the cynicism and jaded takes got to me, and I didn't want to just unsubscribe to something I otherwise value and respect. I hope it doesn't come across as being argumentative, I think it's worth having a dialogue about. I think we hate our own Western countries too much, to the point it enables those who would destroy them to act with impunity. We don't recognise the value of what we have, even if our society is deeply flawed and we continually fail to live up to our principles. People don't understand that the alternatives are much worse if you value being able to make choices for yourself.

Thanks for your time.

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